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Did Plato create "Only the dead have actually seen the end of war"?

due to the fact that this quote appeared, attributed come Plato, at the start of Ridley Scott"s 2001 movie "Black eagle Down", several human being have request me the exact resource of the quote in Plato"s dialogues. Yet, I have actually been unable, to this day, to locate it in any one of them.And I"m no the just one in that case! One person who asked was Mr Michael Takiff, who had come up through the quote, attributed come Plato, in a letter indigenous a soldier in Vietnam to his father while prepare a book called "Brave Men, gentle Heroes: American Fathers and Sons in human being War II and also Vietnam", come be published by HarperCollins in 2003. I was unable to assist him, however I later learned, in additional exchanges I had with him by mail, that, through the assist of friends and colleagues, he had actually come up through the following about the quote: nobody he had been in touch with had been may be to situate it in a conversation of Plato. It mirrors up, again attributed to Plato, on the wall surface of the royal War Museum in London.

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Here is what grandfather Takiff created me on august 2, 2002 about the quote, based on these data:

"I think it"s almost certain that MacArthur"s usage of the quotation in his famed speech in 1962 accounts for the the popularity among American soldiers. However, I"m unconvinced that MacArthur is the ultimate resource of the quotation"s attribution to Plato. My factor is that it appears, attributed come Plato (just Plato, no citation), on the wall of the imperial War Museum in London. (I owe mine awareness the this figure of the quote to a former professor that mine -- Victor Bers, a classicist in ~ Yale -- who recently visited the museum.) The museum has been housed at this location since 1936; of course, the quotation might have been put up any type of time since. One would think, however, the the holder of this college would practice more scholarly discipline than the producers of a Hollywood battle movie. And also so, I"m doubtful that the quotation"s route to the museum"s wall surface passed through general MacArthur"s speech. I have actually just emailed the manager of study at the museum. I"ll permit you understand what, if anything, I discover out."

In short, the attribution of this quote to Plato remains many questionable, while its appearence in functions by George Santayana is a fact, and the opportunity that the resource of that is misattribution come Plato be general McArthur is fairly real, though no proven.

If ns learn much more about it, I"ll update this page. And also if anybody around finds the in one of Plato"s dialogues, please let me know, I"ll it is in glad to include his/her surname to this page as the finder of the quote in Plato...

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(1) In a text called "A overview to studying history at ft Huachuca, only the dead are safe: war and also history", available in PDF layout on the site of the US military Intelligence facility at ft Huachuca, and also in HTML format through Google, the quote is likewise attributed to George Santayana, but the resource given over there is Santayana"s "The Life that Reason", Scribners, new York, 1953. In the entrance on George Santayana in the Stanford Encyclopaedia of philosophy on the Web, one have the right to read: "Santayana"s stay in Oxford throughout the great War brought about his famous respond to to Wilson"s war to finish all wars: "Only the dead have actually seen the end of war." (Soliloquies in England and also Later Soliloquies, 102)". On another site reproducing general McArthur"s speech, the author ot the site, bill Thayer, to add the complying with note through regard to the supposed Plato quotation: "I have been can not to uncover this in Plato; and apparently I"m no the only one. Lock are certainly to be uncovered in the 20c theorist George Santayana"s Soliloquies in England and Later Soliloquies (1922), and reappeared in The Life the Reason, a book published in 1953 soon after the author"s fatality — during the oriental War at a time once they would have actually been very likely to catch Gen. MacArthur"s eye. A quick thread top top the Classics-L includes the opinion that these indigenous are currently widely viewed as Plato"s precisely because of Gen. MacArthur"s misattribution in this speech." ()

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